I hate to say it because, undoubtedly, someone will take it the wrong way, but I honestly think this is a great outcome for the future of Israel and the Palestinian People. This could be the move that will bring peace to the region. I don't say this because I believe Hamas is going to be a great political force for good, but rather because I know they will fail the Palestinian people. They have no experience governing. They don't know what it takes and they'll undoubtedly fail, just like their terrorist predecessor, Yassir Arafat, failed. Convincing poor, downtrodden young men who have no future before them (mainly because of Hamas' actions) to blow themselves up is nothing compared to actually having to govern.
The question is how will the Palestinian People react when Hamas fails to bring them a better life? Will they revert to their Arafat-inspired codependence of conspiracy theories galore or will they, for once, open their eyes and see that Hamas and every other terrorist organization, not to mention every Arab nation state, uses the Palestinians for their political purposes and that, perhaps, it's time for them to step up and stop themselves from being used? If the Palestinians take the latter option, the election of Hamas---and the turmoil it will unbdoubtedly bring for the Israelis---might actually be worth it in the long term if it convinces the Palestinians to stop giving credence to what these terrorists say and brings about an era where peace will actually stick.
Posted by Kathy at January 26, 2006 09:09 AM | TrackBackGood news: the outright theft of foreign aid money might be cut somewhat with the takeover of the Palestinian government by Hamas, which would leave more money for schools, parks, and education for Palestinian children.
Bad news: the kids won't be around to enjoy these new amenities after Hamas straps bomb belts to them and sends them into Israel to kill JOOOOOOS.
I say it's a case of the "meet the new boss, same as the old boss" principle in action.
Posted by: Russ from Winterset at January 26, 2006 01:18 PMI hate to bring this up, but you said similar things when Abu Mazen came into power.
It is already very clear what the palestinians want, they elected hamas because hamas has promised to destroy Israel.
Look at what they have done in Gaza, they destroyed everything, and it is a lawless place full of murder and mayhem.
What you suggest is impossible because no matter how horrible their lives become under hamas, they will be told and they will always believe that their sorrows are caused by the Jews. They will never hold hamas accountable for their troubles, nor will they hold themselves accountable for their troubles. No matter how bad it becomes, they will just blame the Jews and they will always seek to destroy Israel.
And if they succeed, they will then seek to destroy America. This is their stated goal. But the world does not listen to what they say, unless they are complaining about what the Jews have done to them.
Why?
Linda:
1. Forgive me if this sounds a bit incredulous and condescending, but why on God's green earth do you insist on calling Abbas "Abu Mazen"? You do realize that by calling him that you are honoring him, don't you? I'm sorry. I don't mean to be rude, it's just that "Abu Mazen" is not something I'd ever call Abbas. He doesn't have my respect. He obviously doesn't have yours. Why do you call him that?
2. Here's a link to the post that you mentioned.
I stick by my comments today. I stick by my comments from a year ago.
Do you stick by your comments from a year ago, Linda?
I call things like I see them. Obviously I would have preferred a different electoral outcome. So would most reasonable people. But this is what you have before you: Hamas has been elected to govern. Do you think they'll have much luck with that, you know, what with all the experience that they have at it? {/sarcasm} Do you think they'll know how to appropriate funds to fix roads and build schools? Do you honestly think that the Palestinian people put them in office only to blow up Jews? Or do you think they think that Hamas is one of the few groups who actually manages to get things done, and since our choices are so shitty, why not? Because, let's face it, Hamas is pretty damn good at handing out the payola to get stupid young kids to blow themselves up for the greater glory of Allah. They've also, it appears, have the green hat and banner markets cornered, but this all means one thing: they manage to get things done. No, they're not good things, of course, but it is progress of a sort. This is why, I believe, Hamas was elected: because Palestinians think they can get something done. Now they actually have to back that up. They've just been handed the rope by which they will hang themselves. The only question that remains is will the Palestinians believe that Hamas hanged itself, or will they think that it's the Jews fault. I choose to think that perhaps they might see the light, while knowing that they probably won't.
Posted by: Kathy at January 26, 2006 11:58 PMI call him Abu Mazen because that it is his terrorist name, given to him by his people. You see, I have never forgotten for a moment that Abu Mazen is a terrorist.
I understand why you stand by your comments from last year, you genuinely believed that it might be different, and you had hope. That does not make you a bad person. But you were wrong.
I stand by my comments last year, and although I wish it were different, the past year has proven me to be right. Abu Mazen accomplished nothing last year, except that he helped his people kill more Jews.
Just this year alone:
Jan 2, 2005 - Nissim Arbiv, 25, of Nissanit in the Gaza Strip was mortally wounded in a mortar shell attack while working in the Erez Industrial Zone. He died of his wounds on January 11. Two others were wounded in the attack, for which Hamas claimed responsibility.
Jan 7, 2005 - St.-Sgt. Yosef (Yossi) Atia, 21, of Petah Tikva, was killed and three fellow off-duty soldiers were wounded when Palestinian gunmen opened fire on their car on the Trans-Samaria Highway. The Fatah al-Aksa Martyrs Brigades claimed responsibility for the attack.
Jan 9, 2005 - An Israeli officer is killed, and three others injured, in a Hezbollah rocket attack along the Lebanese border (Shebba Farms).
Jan 12, 2005 - Gideon Rivlin, 50, of Ganei Tal was killed and three IDF soldiers were wounded when a bomb was detonated as a military vehicle patroled the route near Morag in the southern Gaza Strip. Two terrorists were killed by IDF forces. The area was booby-trapped with explosive devices, in addition to the bomb that exploded. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for the attack.
Jan 13, 2005 - On Thursday night, shortly before the closing of the Karni Crossing, terrorists activated an explosive device on the Palestinian side, blowing a hole in the door through which Palestinian terrorists infiltrated the Israeli side of the crossing and opened fire at Israeli civilians. As a result of the explosion and exchanges of fire, six Israeli civilians and three Palestinian terrorists were killed, and five Israeli civilians were wounded. Hamas and the Fatah al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades claimed joint responsiblity for the attack. The victims: Dror Gizri, 30, of Sderot; Ibrahim Kahili, 46, of Umm al-Ghanem; Munam Abu Sabia, 33, of Daburiyeh; Ivan Shmilov, 53, of Sderot; Herzl Shlomo, 51, of Sderot; and Ofer Tiri, 23, of Ashkelon.
Jan 15, 2005 - Ayala-Haya (Ella) Abukasis, 17, of Sderot was mortally wounded when a Qassam rocket landed near her and shrapnel penetrated her cerebellum, leaving her brain dead. She was struck while protecting her younger brother, who was lightly wounded. Kept on life support throughout the week, her parents agreed to stop treatment when doctors told them there was no chance of recovery. She died on January 21.
Jan 18, 2005 - Oded Sharon, 36, from Gan Yavne, an ISA officer, was killed, an IDF officer seriously wounded, and four IDF soldiers and three members of the ISA were lightly wounded in a suicide bombing attack at the Gush Katif junction in the central Gaza Strip. While search procedures were being implemented at a post at the junction, the suicide bomber with explosives strapped to his body detonated himself. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.
Jan 18, 2005 - 17-year-old Israeli girl dies trying to protect her 10-year-old brother from a Hamas rocket attack (on 1-15 in Sderot).
The "Truce" or "Hudna" or whatever you want to call it agreed to by Sharon and Abu Mazen began February 8, 2005. The following attacks occured during the so called Truce:
Feb 25, 2005 - Five people were killed and 50 wounded Friday night, when a suicide bomber blew himself up outside the Stage club on the Tel Aviv promenade at around 11:20 P.M., on the corner of Herbert Samuel and Yonah Hanavi streets. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for the attack.
The victims: Yitzhak Buzaglo, 40, of Mishmar Hayarden; Aryeh Nagar, 37, of Kfar Sava; Yael Orbach, 28, of Rehovot; Ronen Reuvenov, 30, of Tel Aviv. Odelia Hubara, 26, of Jerusalem, died of her wounds on February 28.
May 2, 2005 - St.-Sgt. Dan Talasnikov, 21, of Nir Galim was killed and another soldier lightly wounded in an exchange of fire during an operation to arrest wanted terrorists from the Islamic Jihad in the village of Saida, north of Tulkarem. One of the terrorists, responsible for the February 25 suicide bombing in Tel Aviv, was killed. The second terrorist was apprehended.
Mar 7, 2005 - Two Israelis are wounded by a Palestinian sniper in Hebron.
Jun 7, 2005 - Three workers were killed and five wounded when a Qassam rocket hit a packing shed in Ganei Tal, in the Gaza Strip, penetrating the building's roof and exploding indoors. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for the attack.
Jun 19, 2005 - IDF NCO Sgt.-Maj. Avi Karouchi, 25, of Beersheba was killed and two soldiers were wounded in a coordinated Palestinian attack in which RPG missiles and gunfire were fired at an IDF engineering force conducting construction work on the Philadelphi route along the Israeli-Egyptian border. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for the attack.
Jun 20, 2005 - Yevgeny Reider, 28 of Hermesh was killed and a 16-year old teenager was wounded in a terrorist shooting attack in the village of Baka A-Sharkiya in the northern West Bank. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for the attack.
Jun 24, 2005 - Avihai Levy, 17, of Beit Hagai was killed in a drive-by terrorist shooting at a hitchhiking stop about 200 meters from the entrance to Beit Hagai, south of Hebron. Aviad Mansour, 16, of Otniel, fatally wounded in the attack, died on June 26. Three others were wounded. The Islamic Jihad and Fatah al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades claimed responsibility for the attack.
Jun 29, 2005 - Hezbollah attacks an Israeli position at Mt. Dov from across the Lebanese border, killing one and injuring three.
Jul 12, 2005 - Rachel Ben Abu, 16, of Tel Aviv; Nofar Horowitz, 16, of Tel Aviv; and Julia Voloshin, 31, of Netanya were killed and about 90 people were wounded when a suicide bomber detonated himself outside Hasharon Mall in Netanya. Anya Lifshitz, 50, of Netanya, who was mortally wounded, succumbed to her wounds on July 13. Cpl. Moshe Maor Jan, 21, of Netanya died of his wounds on July 14. The bomber was identified as Ahmed Abu Khalil, 18, from the West Bank village of Atil. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for the attack.
Jul 14, 2005 - Dana Gelkovitch, 22, of Kibbutz Bror Hayil, was killed by a Qassam rocket fired at Netiv Ha'asara in the northern Gaza Strip. Hamas, Islamic Jihad and Fatah all claimed responsibility for the attack.
Israel gave up Gaza for peace. And how did Israel's partners in peace respond? There are the terrorist attacks after the expulsion and, of course, still during the Truce:
Jul 23, 2005 - Dov, 58, and Rachel Kol, 53, of Jerusalem were killed shortly after midnight on Saturday night near the Kissufim crossing in the southern Gaza Strip while returning home from visiting family in Gush Katif. Three others were wounded. The Islamic Jihad and Fatah al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades claimed responsibility for the attack.
Aug 3, 2005 - Palestinian terrorists fire a rocket at a group of Israeli demonstrators in Sderot. The missile hits their own group instead, killing a 3-year-old boy and injuring nine others, including five children.
Aug 24, 2005 - Shmuel Mett, 21, of Britain, a Mir Yeshiva student, was returning from the Western Wall to the yeshiva in Jerusalem’s Beit Yisrael neighborhood when he was fatally stabbed near Jaffa Gate in the Old City. Two other students were wounded.
Aug 28, 2005 - A Fatah terrorist detonated a suicide bomb in Beersheba, eight Israelis are hospitalized, including two guards that were seriously wounded.
Sept 21, 2005 - Sasson Nuriel, 55, of Jerusalem was kidnapped and slain by Palestinian terrorists. His body was found on Sept 26 in a garbage dump in the industrial zone of Bitunya, west of Ramallah. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.
Oct 16, 2005 - Matat (Rosenfeld) Adler, 21, and her cousin, Kineret Mandel, 23, both of Carmel, and Oz Ben-Meir, 15, of Maon were killed and three were wounded when Palestinians opened fire at the Gush Etzion junction south of Jerusalem. Another teenager was shot and seriously wounded near Eli, in Samaria. The Fatah Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades claimed responsibility for both attacks.
Oct 26, 2005 - Six people were killed and 55 wounded, six seriously, in a suicide bombing at the Hadera open-air market. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for the attack. The victims: Michael Kaufman, 68, of Hadera; Pirhiya Machlouf, 53, of Hadera; Sabiha Nissim, 66, of Moshav Ahituv; Jamil Qa'adan, 48, of Baka al-Gharbiya; and Ya'acov Rahmani, 68, of Hadera. A sixth victim, Genia Poleis, 66, of Hadera, died of her wounds 11 days later, on November 5.
Nov 2, 2005 - St.-Sgt. Yonatan Evron, 20, of Rishon Lezion, was mortally wounded in a gun battle with terrorists near Jenin. He died en route to hospital.
Nov 21, 2005 - Eleven Israeli soldiers and one civilian are injured by a Hezbollah attack in Metulla, Northern Israel..
Dec 5, 2005 - Five people were killed and over 50 wounded in a suicide bombing at the entrance to the Sharon shopping mall in Netanya. The terrorist detonated the bomb when he was stopped by security guards, one of whom was killed. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for the attack. The victims: Haim Amram, 26, of Netanya, a security guard at the mall; Alexandra Garmitzky, 65, of Netanya; Daniel Golani, 45, of Nahariya; Elia Rosen, 38, of Bat Hefer; and Keinan Tsuami, 20, of Petah Tikva.
Dec 8, 2005 - Sgt. Nir Kahane, 20, of Kiryat Tivon, was stabbed to death at the Kalandiya checkpoint, south of Ramallah. The assailant was apprehended. The Fatah al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades claimed responsibility for the attack.
Dec 16, 2005 - Yosef (Yossi) Shok, 35, of Beit Hagai was killed in a shooting attack while driving home in the southern Hebron hills. Two passengers were wounded. The Islamic Jihad and Fatah Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades claimed joint responsibility for the attack.
Dec 29, 2005 - Lt. Ori Binamo, 21, of Nesher was killed when a terrorist en route to carry out an attack in Israel detonated himself at roadblock set up near Tulkarm following an intelligence tip. Two Palestinians were also killed, one the taxi driver who was carrying the bomber. Three soldiers and seven Palestinians were wounded.
The number of rockets and mortar shells on Israeli targets has sharply increased since the expulsion, with 130 attacks from January through July, the eve of the expulsion, and 179 since then. Most of them fell during the Truce. And many of them came from Gaza. Hamas fires rockets into Israel pretty much every day.
Arab mother Um Nidal, is also known as Mariam Farahat, and she became famous when she was filmed bidding her 17-year-old son Mohammed farewell to die through a terrorist attack. She ordered him "not to return except as a shahid [martyr for Allah]." Ordering one son to die was not enough, Um sent three of her sons to die and murder others in the process.
When a mother orders three of her children to kill themselves and to kill innocent civilians with them, what better candidate could you have to help run the new Palestinian government?
Last week Mariam Farahat was a star in the Arab world, because her son murdered 5 high school students.
Yesterday, Mariam Farahat, was elected to the Palestinian parliament.
This is what the Palestinian people stand for, this is what they want, and this is who they vote for.
I could post link after link to poll after poll where Palestinians claim in overwhelming numbers that they back suicide bombers and killing of Jews and the destruction of Israel. But we have all seen those polls and I think I've said enough here for now.
Again, I pray you are right, but I fear you are wrong.
Posted by: LindaSoG at January 27, 2006 06:20 AM"Abu" denotes familial relation. Calling him Abu Mazen is literally calling him "Father of Mazen". It's not a terrorist name, it's a term of endearment that insiders/friends use to show respect for the fact that the man has fathered a male heir. If I'm not mistaken, they always and only use the first-born son when conferring this label on a man.
Posted by: MRN aka "The Husband" at January 27, 2006 07:31 AMSorry but Abu Mazen is the name Abbas used as a PLO terrorist.
Posted by: LindaSoG at January 29, 2006 07:13 PMLinda,
Sure, that might be the name he used when he was in the PLO, but it's also an Arab term of endearment. By calling him that you are drawing attention to the fact he has a male heir, and in the process you're honoring him.
The husband has worked in the Middle East, Kuwait specifically, and he addresses his Kuwaiti partner and friend,"Abu Salman" which means, "father of Salman," instead of by his given name of Ahmed. Abu Salman is a term of endearment. It is also a title that requires the speaker to be on friendly terms with the holder. People in the PLO undoubtedly called him that, but that name didn't have anything to do with his terrorist status. It did, however, have everything to do with his status in the Arab world as a man who has a male heir, which as we all know is something Arabs and Muslims choose to celebrate.
You might think you're drawing attention to the fact Abbas was in the PLO by using this name, but that's not the case at all. I'm sorry to tell you this, but you're making a rather large cultural faux pas that draws attention away from the very relevant arguments you make regarding the future of the Israeli people and the fact that Abbas is no one to honor when you instead do the exact opposite and honor him, and the fact he's fathered more Palenstinians who undoubtedly hate Jews. It's jarring and it takes away from your point rather than adding to it.
Posted by: Kathy at January 29, 2006 09:25 PMYou are making an issue out of my use of the name Abu Mazen to avoid the other issues raised in my comments.
Its okay, I understand the tactic, although I don't use it myself.
Posted by: LindaSoG at January 30, 2006 06:55 AMNo, Linda. I didn't refute the rest of your argument because I don't really disagree with you, I'm just coming at it from a different viewpoint. There's nothing to argue out.
I am making an issue out of your using the name Abu Mazen because I think it takes away from your commentary, rather than adding to it. There's no other reason than that. It means "Father of Mazen." If you would like to honor Abbas, go right ahead. You should know, however, that you look foolish when you do, and I thought you'd perhaps want to know. I'll spare myself the trouble in the future.
Posted by: Kathy at January 30, 2006 08:00 AMCalling Abbas by his terrorist name is not an honor, perhaps if you had a better understanding of who he is and where the name originated, you would see things in a different way.
Kinda like accepting a Hamas government as an experiment, without taking into consideration how many Jewish lives will be sacrified to your experiment.
I have friends and family in Israel. Its less of an experiment and more of a personal thing for me. Perhaps if it were your family and friends at risk, you would be less welcoming of such experiments.
Posted by: LindaSoG at January 30, 2006 09:37 AM